Episode 9·1:00:35·10 Sept 2024

Jonathan Shaw on Leading Through Change, Reframing Your Mindset & Real Lessons in Strategy

with Jonathan Shaw, Partner, Hatten M&A Advisory

Surya Palli

Founder of iGaming Real Talk.·10 Sept 2024

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In this powerful episode, Jonathan Shaw opens up about the realities of leadership that most people don't talk about.

We explore Jon's early mindset lessons and his first event business, the difference between brand and performance marketing, why most people get strategy wrong (and how to fix it), knowing when to walk away from an idea, the difference between CBT and CBC and how coaching changed his life, managing the monkey in your head, leadership and humility, and crucially, when NOT to lead. This conversation is filled with honest reflections and practical wisdom for anyone in a leadership role.

Notable quotes

Most people get strategy wrong, and learning how to fix it is the key to sustainable success.

Leadership is as much about knowing when to step back and not lead as it is about stepping up to take charge.

Mastering the monkey in your head is a prerequisite for anyone in a high-stakes leadership role.

Key takeaways

Redefining Strategy
Most people misunderstand the core purpose of strategy; the episode clarifies how to properly frame and execute strategic thinking for better outcomes.
Marketing Differentiation
Understand the fundamental distinctions between brand marketing and performance marketing to better allocate resources and focus your goals.
The Art of Letting Go
Learn the critical importance of knowing when to walk away from an idea that is no longer serving its purpose, rather than persisting out of ego.
Mental Discipline
Techniques for managing internal anxieties, often referred to as the 'monkey in your head,' are essential for maintaining effective leadership.
The Role of Coaching
Discover how transitioning through therapeutic and coaching methodologies, such as CBT and CBC, can fundamentally shift your mindset and professional performance.
Humility in Leadership
True leadership requires acknowledging one's limitations and understanding that there are specific situations where the best choice is to step back and not lead.

About the guest

Jonathan Shaw

Partner, Hatten M&A Advisory

Jonathan Shaw is an experienced iGaming marketing and strategy leader, with a career focused on performance marketing and business growth.

LinkedIn profile

Transcript excerpt

A short passage published by the podcast, not the whole conversation.

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Surya Palli
Welcome to the show, Jonathan. I’m excited to dive into your approach to leadership and the realities of guiding others. To start, could you tell us where your foundational mindset as a leader actually began?
Jonathan Shaw
It really goes back to my early days running my first event business. Those years were formative for me because they forced me to learn the ropes of marketing, specifically helping me understand the critical distinction between brand-focused efforts and performance-driven tactics.
Surya Palli
That’s a key distinction. Staying on the topic of business operations, you’ve mentioned that many professionals struggle with corporate strategy. Why is that, and how can we fix those broken approaches?
Jonathan Shaw
People struggle because they overcomplicate it. My goal is to provide a roadmap for simplifying strategy so it’s actually actionable. A big part of that discipline is knowing when an idea has run its course. You have to realize that knowing when to walk away is just as vital as knowing when to commit.
Surya Palli
That requires a lot of mental clarity. You’ve been very open about your own personal development, specifically regarding coaching. Could you explain the difference between Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and the Cognitive Behavioral Coaching you focus on?
Jonathan Shaw
It’s a subtle but important shift. While CBT is often clinical, Cognitive Behavioral Coaching is a framework that helped me navigate my own internal struggles, or as I like to put it, managing the monkey in your head. It’s been transformative for me personally.
Surya Palli
Beyond the internal work, how do you see those personal habits translating into organizational culture?
Jonathan Shaw
I believe there is an inextricable link between effective leadership and genuine humility. You can't have one without the other if you want true organizational success.
Surya Palli
That leads me to your perspective on influence. You’ve shared some provocative advice on when to lead and, perhaps more importantly, when to step back. Could you expand on that?
Jonathan Shaw
Leadership isn't about being out in front all the time. There is a real art to knowing when to lead, but you have to be mature enough to know when to step back and not lead at all. It’s all about finding that balance.